Why shoud we believe any government stats, after all they tell us that inflation is running at well under 4% and who believs that.

terry, northampton, uk

This data is inconclusive. In principle locking up more people helps. However, it looks like violent crime, that should be punished with jail terms, is on the rise. This contradicts the principle so we must assume that most of the people in jail are for minor offences

andrea ceccanti, london,

What you say may be true but it is essentially facile in the sense of being an inevitable result, but it doesn t do anything for the prevalence of crime or for reducing the costs. I submit it is the threat of crime that bothers people as much as the event. A principal reason why Britain has its high rate of crime is because it has an autocratic and adversarial regime in contrast to the more socially democratic societies in Europe. Thus it is not so much a question of prison working as of prison being necessary given the environment. I would submit that one point to seriously consider is improving the state of housing in the country, which is presently relatively so poor. If a person comes out of jail to a secure and comfortable accommodation he is much more likely to be deterred from going back inside than if he is just thrown onto the streets and a hostel environment.

Henry Percy, London, UK

"Prison works. So why won't we admit it?"

Because short term reductions may lead to long-term increases.

Josh, London,

In addition to lessons from Singapore, consider those of Joe Arpaio. (Google him)

Joe (no relation), New York, US

What utter Twaddle! Libraries of properly conducted research amply demonstrat that tougher sentencing policies and greater use of incarceration actually correlates with an INCREASE in the crime rate.

John Lockett, Burnley, Lancashire

This article is a list of predictable provocative assertions dressed up in fancy language. No wonder people don't read the newspapers so much any more. If we want brash headlines we go to the BBC. If we want to relax with something a bit more thoughtful, this piece, at least, is not providing it.

Tina, London, UK

Why, oh why are we following in the footsteps--in so many ways--as the dysfunctional U.S? Prisons are not the answer; a robust and comprehensive education for all is. An intelligent, well trained society is far more healthy and productive than one that is being dumbed down ala the good 'ole U.S.A.

Lindsey Murray, Lafayette (via Hertfordshire), U.S.

harsh policies DO work. look at NYC, they have one strike your out where if you are convicted of a serious crime you lose your state subsidized housing. of course the black community said it wasn't fair but now NYC is the safest it has ever been. 15 years for cold blooded murder is a farce!

Alex, london, england

Of course prison works in locking the criminal up-that's obvious.

The deterrent effect is debatable-if it was that much of a deterrent there would be almost no crime.

So crime has gone down but it is still much higher than in many EU countries-yet we lock up far more people than these countries.

Nick, Rochdale, United Kingdom

One wonders why Robert Mugabe is unable to secure absolute obedience from his population, where the fear-factor is dizzyingly high and the penalty for breaking the law exceeds any penalty in Britain 1000-fold. Clearly deterrence is not the major factor in law enforcement.

Steve, Cyprus,

Many of the people in prison at any time are on remand, and therefore innocent, and they should not be in prison. of those on remand, one third will be found 'not guilty', and another third will be given a non-custodial sentence.

many who are found guilty should be sent to hospital not prison.

Robert Jameson, Hartlepool, UK

it's just as easy to commit a crime inside a prison as outside one.

George, Basingstoke, UK

George Williams, Basingstoke, UK

if prison eliminates crime then why not just lock up the whole population and get rid of crime completely?

When you start with a faulty premise you end with a faulty conclusion.

david, new York, United States

lots of young kids dont see prison as that bad, in some places, most know someone, parent or friend whose been, they almost expect to go. I am in favour of tagging as they are overcrowded and they often come out with more criminal connections than when they went in, and much harder too.

madeline, nottingham,

How naive - people have given up reporting crime.The only time they bother is if they need a Crime Rererence Number for their Insurance Claim.
Do the figures include fixed penalty notices, cautions?

james allen, manchester, england

There was 1 Brazilian shot by the police in London. The same year 900 were shot in Rio. If you merged the two- how many ?
When you have worked that out If 100,000 from a state where 100in 1000 are murdered moved to a city of 1,000,000 where it is 1 in a 1000 what would the murder rate be?

ged, manchester,

Jo - Domestic abuse is not a political crime. There is nothing political about being kicked around a lounge whilst pregnant.
Most murders are domestic related which why it is taken so seriously

Bryony - To be fair there are many prosecutions for common assault, not just GBH, I'm involved in them.

Andrew, Notts, UK

I have just submitted this letter:

Every time I see the Government crime (or any other) statistics, I am reminded of Orwell’s words:

“All one knew was that every quarter, astronomical quantities of boots were produced on paper, while perhaps half the population of Oceania went barefoot."

Peter Nicholson, London, UK

How many of those 22000 are people jailed for possessing drugs who have harmed no-one whatsoever?

Don't confuse people in jail with doing good - most of them are there as a consequence of drug prohibition anyway.

Frank, London,

No parole, no ridiculous 'early release' schemes and the adoption of '3 strikes and your out.' Just think about the reduction in crime that could be achieved. Law abiding members of society would be able to walk the streets without fear, if we kept the criminal locked up, even those under 18.

June, Manchester, UK

The government does not produce statistics for the illegal drug abuse now endemic within the UK and which underpins about 50% or more of criminal activity. Coupled with this has been a rapid expansion in the counterfeiting of fashion goods, entertainment items, Identity documents and pornography

robert El-Cid, Hull., East Yorks.,

You say prisons need to be a deterrent. Well they are not. I recently visited one in a work capacity and I tell you they are like Butlins. Nice equipped gym (costs me £40/month), games room free pool etc. TV in every room nice grounds all dressed in casual clothes. Deterrent? I want to go.

rob, ashbourne, uk

The decrease in crime appears to correspond with an increase in the prison population, the latter is not necessarily the cause of the former. In the United States, for example, a burgeoning prison population has not decreased crime. The governement has reduced crime by eliminating social problems.

Chris, Worcestershire,

Jo from London - how is domestic violence a political crime?
The only people who are ever prosecuted for domestic violence (the conviction rate is appalling) are those who have inflicted GBH and/or serious psychological damage to their partner - not exactly a 'silly argument'!
Unbeliveable.

Bryony, Leeds,

180 when hanging stopped over 800 now. Still not high. As many were killed in one NY precinct before they got a grip. Their rate is still higher.
In 50s prostitution was a social evil60s an intelligent career choice.Permissiveness caused increase, awareness of ill effects its slow decline.

ged, manchester,

There is too much focus on rehabilitation nowadays. I quite agree that it is a "nice to have", but it seems very elusive. Meanwhile, the essential job of minimizing crime is being neglected, and as this article shows, prison is an effective way of doing that. Sorry if that's too conservative a view!

Tom Welsh, Basingstoke,

Generally, crime follows unemployment, not incarceration. But since the UK has more prisoners per capita than anywhere else in Europe and still has more crime, perhaps prison by itself is not the answer? Certainly refsing to rehabilitate junkies doesn't help, nor does criminalizing the insane.

richard, Horley, UK

The US locks up 25% of the worlds prisoners and serious crime rates are far higher than here. Norway has half our prisoners and lower crime rates. UK prisons turn minor offenders into career criminals and often into heroin addicts.

Danny, Forth, Scotland

Yes prison works fine until they are released .

Benzo, Nr Chelmsford,

Let's just lock everyone up and then there'll be no crime at all.

Chris, Slough, UK

What was the murder and manslaughter rate in the last year that the death penalty was given, and what is it now? How many innocent people have lost their lives through that political change?

N Reed, Truro, UK

David,

Our problem today is that we have abandoned the truth of good and evil and have adopted instead what we now call “values” or in broader terms 'human rights'. Value is a subjective, relativistic term; any individual, group, or society may choose to value whatever they want. Very Bad!

Mark, Maidstone, England

Have anyone recently tried to report a crime to the Police? You can't due to a lack of staff on the front desk or an unwillingness of the staff if the front desk manned to file a report. No report, "no crime" and therefore the crime figures go down.

A crime in itself I think.

Andrew James, London, UK

So it wouldn't be anything to do with the 30,000 new 'crimes' invented by this Goverment since they took office or the areas of 'crime' which they have attacked, a huge swathe of which are aimed at the hapless motorist?? Present policy can make a crime out of a robust fart or writing poetry.

Pu Li, Phuket, Thailand

If this was treated as a serious problem and say the prison population was doubled. We could go on a campaign of serious sentences. Then we could with the pressure of overcrowding dealt with address the prisoners problems that make them likely to reoffend. Empty prisons is no problem.

John, Egremont,

Aggression and criminality were the norm for our stone-age forebears. Britain retained its share in the gene pool, when psychopaths were its warriors & knights. No surprise they do not firt in modern society. Lock 'em up where they can't hurt the rest of us. Build more prisons for anachronisms.

wilfred knight, orange county, usa

Prison serves two purposes. One is to punish, the second is to remove criminals from society.
The concept of the "three strikes" rule should be adopted by Britain, where committing three serious offences lands you true life in prison. The system deals with someones propensity to commit crime.

peterj, malvern, uk

David Ryan says that prison does not work as repeat offender rates seem pretty constant. In fact, this supports Green's claim that it works by keeping those repeat offenders behind bars longer. I would agree that it rarely if ever rehabilitates - that requires changes in deep-seated habit patterns.

Faustino, Brisbane, Australia

That's it completely, lack of confidence and complete mistrust. Juggled statistics would be expected just as further "band-aids" for serious problems on Law n' order, the military or Economy.

Brooks, C, Jomtien, Thailand

If we locked up proper criminals and stopped wasting our time on political crime like domestics we would have the whole thing under control.

Remanding a man who has had a silly argument with his girlfriend but bailing a prolific thief with a habit to support is a nonsense.

Jo, london, uk

Thank you, M G Graham, for your kind words. Yes, Singapore is very tough on criminals - but also has many rehabilitation services, both public and private.

The key point is this: the criminal must have a good reason to want rehabilitation. Which is exactly what the tough prison sentence provides.

Robert Firth, Singapore,

Any copper you can tell you crime "statistics" be shaped in any way desired simply through reporting policy. Remember an entire force beat the bushes to find the 700 "victims" of a teenagers scheme to cheat a quid from people? Result: 700 crimes reported, 700 crimes solved. A swindle itself!

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California

As so many crimes are commited by druggies, why do we not inject them with chemicals that make them throw up if they relapse? I remember some sort of a pilot years ago.

Desmond Taylor, Houston, USA TX

I don't know why Governments chase so hard the elusive grail of rehabilitation. It's not as if decent people are in short supply.

Paul Neri, Canberra, Australia

If prison doesn't work here's a thought .... how about we let them all out today and see if the crime rate falls? Duh!

M Graham, Auckland, New Zealand

So which is it? Does prison work as evidenced by more prisoners and falling crime rates? Or are the figures dodgy, meaning that actually crime isn't falling so locking up all those prisoners was a waste of time and money?

Can't have it both ways!

Simon, London,

Singapore is a great example of how to run prisons. They keep inmates 4 to a cell, feed them rice and water and let them share a single toilet bowl in the corner with only the privacy of their straw bed mats to screen them. Safest city in the world and a wonderful place to walk around at night!

M G Graham, Auckland, New Zealand

Putting criminals away is the right path. However when they get to prison they need to be made so uncomfortable in there, that they willl never want to return to such a place again. No TV, radio, telephone, cigarets, alcohol or girly magazines. No free time, only hard work. Make it hard all the way.

Jim Wills, Brisbane, Australia

While I have respect for the work of Civitas, I cannot agree with David Green's assessment. Recent criminology literature shows no direct correlation between the rise in prison sentences and declining crime rates, and repeat offender rates seem pretty constant. In this sense, prison does not work.

David Ryan, Birmingham, UK

If they rebuilt the asylums for the unfortunate mad people then maybe they could put criminals in the prisons instead of the mentally disturbed?

kevin, Lincoln, UK